Topic-icon SWG Pre-CU Timeline of Destruction

  • Kazara
  • Kazara's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Community Manager
  • Community Manager
More
6 years 6 months ago #31 by Kazara
By Temploiter

I've seen some really badly informed posting going on at MMORPG.com before, but some of these n00bs are just pulling data out of their ass to make excuses for why NGE 'had to be done'.

I think we should make a definitive Timeline of events, that is opinion-free, to combat the kinds of comments I've been reading lately like "SWG was bleeding subs way before WoW came out."

See posts below for Raph Koster's comments on this topic from rlmmo.com.

Just Rough Outline here (Please correct if I am wrong):
June 26, 2003 - SWG Release
August 2003 - Night Sister Themepark
August 2003 - Cries of Alderaan I (Evolving Storyline)
August 16, 2003 - Koster Promoted Off SWG
October 2003 - Warren Themepark
October 2003 - Nym's Themepark
October 2003 - Cries of Alderaan II (Evovling Storyline)
November 2003 - Creature Mounts
November 2003 - Player Cities
November 2003 - RIS Armor Questline/Crafting
December 2003 - Jedi Lightsaber TEF (flagged for PvP if wearing or entering any combat with a saber)
December 16, 2003 - Vehicle Mounts
December 24 & 25, 2003 - Holocron Christmas and Revelation of Jedi Grindathon Path to Ubertude
January 1, 2004 - Holocron New Years Giveaway
January 2004 - Cries of Alderaan III (Evolving Storyline) - Final Chapter (storylines discontinued for some reason, unstated)
Janury 2004 - Jedi now a permanent playable class (Perma-death removed in favor of 'xp-loss' on death)
February 2004 - WoW Closed Beta
June 2004 - SWG Patch 9 - More/Easier Jedi!!!
June 2004 - Large-pop WoW Closed Beta
Auguest 2004 - Village Path to Jedi - Even More Jedi!!!
September 2004 - WoW Open Beta
October 2004 - Jump To Lightspeed Released
November 2004 - WoW Released
...
April 2005 - Combat Upgrade (First SWG Rewrite)
...
November 2005 - New Game Enhancements (NGE) (Second SWG Rewrite)

As I see it, and backed with Raph's comments, Holocrons taking people out of the community and into perma-grind hurt SWG internally, it was a PUSH factor to get people out of the game (either still subbing but grinding Jedi, or cancelling subs because their community started falling apart). Then the MMO of MMO's at roughly the same time, but slightly later, begins beta'ing and then open beta'ing, then is released. This is a PULL factor getting people out of the game (SWG). These 2 things combined drove sub numbers lower, and I'd bet, though this is opinion, that this accounts for 90% of the sub decline.

Opnions?

-Temploiter

_____________________________________________
Democrats not wanting to give up their illegal workers is the modern day version of Democrats not wanting to give up their slaves.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Kazara
  • Kazara's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Community Manager
  • Community Manager
More
6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #32 by Kazara

_____________________________________________
Democrats not wanting to give up their illegal workers is the modern day version of Democrats not wanting to give up their slaves.
Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by Kazara.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Temploiter
  • Temploiter's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Subversive Agent
  • Subversive Agent
  • Robot Death Machine
More
6 years 6 months ago - 6 years 6 months ago #68 by Temploiter
Raph Koster - Creative Director of SWG (Begining of development through August 2003)

Raph talking about the rise in SWG subs (acquisition curve) and the subsequent peak and decline (subscriber and useage curve):


SWG's acquisition curve follows the [WoW] pattern beautifully.

SWG's subscriber and usage curve does not.

Subscribers and usage are driven by retention. Keep even retention, and the curve is followed. But if churn increases dramatically, the curve will foreshorten. And if churn decreases, you will get a "stacked bump."

SWG's downturn is extremely visible on the sub curve. Holocron drops were what made the game go down, and probably the single biggest cause for SWG's eventual fate.

Source: rlmmo.com


Raph, when asked to elaborate on Holocrons being the single biggest cause for SWG's fate:

If you ask me, it's quite simple. Holocrons told people "go play in a way you don't like."

Everyone started doing gameplay they didn't like, for months. Entertainers had to go fight. Fighters had to go dance. Pet people had to go craft. Crafters had to go, well, craft something else. By definition, everything becomes a grind.

Before the Holocrons, you played a given prof because you LIKED it.

What Holocrons did was tell players "you can have this wonderful other thing that most of you didn't know you wanted, if you just make your life miserable."

When the Jedi path was secret, only the people who LIKED trying lots of different stuff would have become Jedi. But we weren't even going to tell them they had made it when they unlocked it, so they wouldn't know how or why they had become Jedi. (Originally, it wasn't just mastering skills -- it was mastering skills, visiting places, doing different commands, etc).

Source: rlmmo.com


Raph on how getting Jedi was before the Holocron pathway was revealed:

I think not knowing what the path was was a very important ingredient. As long as it was a secret, people were free to think that it WAS "acting like a Jedi" or questing, or roleplaying, or whatever else. And by and large, people came up with paths that were stuff that fit the fiction, were altruistic, and so on. So an aspirant Jedi before Holocrons would be someone who behaved well, rather than not.

Source: rlmmo.com

Temploiter
-Making Friends and Influencing People
Last Edit: 6 years 6 months ago by Temploiter.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Temploiter
  • Temploiter's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Subversive Agent
  • Subversive Agent
  • Robot Death Machine
More
6 years 6 months ago #69 by Temploiter
So, how should Jedi have been handled that wouldn't have broken the game Raph?

How I would have preferred to do it:

Proposal 1 was not have player Jedi, based on game balance and canon grounds (too powerful, plus there aren't any). That got shot down.

Proposal 2: Everyone gets two character slots. One regular one, and one Force Sensitive. The Force Sensitive one is labeled "Megahard difficulty only. Permanent death. Don't get attached to a character here. This is a mini-game."

When you start playing, you automatically get the first skillbox in a Force Sensitive tree. There's also a clock running in the corner of the screen, and a warning that "if you die, you're gone forever."

Every time you use whatever command a FS skillbox gives you, PCs near you can report you. NPCs near you can attack you or report you. Too many reports, and you start getting tracked by NPC BHs, working your way up through all the ones from the movies and EU. EVentually, Mara Jade come s to try to kick you ass. Beat her and keep showing off, Darth Vader will come. And you will die. Fight against Darth is unwinnable.

So showing off is a bad thing. Gotta stay hidden. But also gotta advance, and that means using the powers. Pick friends carefully. Clock is running in the corner the whole time...

Sooner or later, you will trip up, and get smooshed. Your time goes on the high score table. For everyone to see.

More importantly, if you make it all the way to Master, when you die, you turn into a blue glowy.

Your main character can now summon this blue glowy -- YOUR Jedi advisor. As an emote. The ultimate way to show off how badass you are-- you could take a permadeath-enabled constantly hunted Jedi to Master.

In fact, you could collect multiple glowies. The best player in the game: the guy who can conjure up 10 blue glowies around the campfire at night...

This one didn't make it because people thought that permadeath was too harsh.

Source: rlmmo.com

Temploiter
-Making Friends and Influencing People

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • wowclone
  • wowclone's Avatar
  • Visitor
  • Visitor
3 years 10 months ago - 3 years 10 months ago #32128 by wowclone
That's when I unsubbed from SWG, when everyone I knew dissapeared into the holocron grind.

I knew exactly what that type of grind gameplay led to, cause I played Everquest before that. I saw the writing on the wall before the Combat Upgrade.
Last Edit: 3 years 10 months ago by wowclone.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.259 seconds

Fringers Online

We have 169 guests and no members online