Topic-icon DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks

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6 years 3 months ago - 5 years 9 months ago #3971 by kefkah
kefkah created the topic: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
Edit 5/18/11: Since the PSN restart, yes, it has been confirmed, exploits are still being used against players. From a personal perspective - we get google inbounds to this thread filled with frustrated wording about the exploits used against them.

Let's start:

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/305936/My-Temporary-Hiatus-From-PvP-Videos-Included.html

Additional Videos...






Proof hack existed BEFORE launch


Dodge Skill Exploit - aka Rolling Exploit


MORE VIDEOS:
Thanks go out to YerYer for the following info...


Shared Bank = Pants on Head Bug
forums.station.sony.com/dcuops3/posts/list.m?&topic_id=17461
And thus a GM replied -

I truly apologize that unfortunately, after I did some further investigation into how I could assist you in un-equipping these items, I am unable to complete the un-equip at this time. I would really like to but due to the small amount of time that DCO has been available, the tools that this would require are still under development.


And the hacks just keep on coming...

Update: Two new bugs or exploits are out there.
1. The Shazam exploit
2. The 1 Hit Kill All Exploit.
Working on verifying both.

In the meantime, here is another link to a ton of exploit vids.
wn.com/DCUO_PVP_EXPLOITS

Last Edit: 5 years 9 months ago by kefkah.

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6 years 3 months ago #3973 by kefkah
kefkah replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
Keep in mind - it was in this condition that this game earned an 8 in this review.

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/350/view/reviews/load/132/page/1

Imagine it's sheer leetness once all the bugs are hammered out in 2015.

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6 years 3 months ago #3983 by Wildcat84
Wildcat84 replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks

kefkah wrote: Keep in mind - it was in this condition that this game earned an 8 in this review.

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/350/view/reviews/load/132/page/1

Imagine it's sheer leetness once all the bugs are hammered out in 2015.


SOE's Devs couldn't fix the bug in this code (some old fashioned Commodore 64 BASIC), which should loop the word HELLO.

10 PRINT "HELLO"
20 GOTO 20

Their fix would be to modify it to this:


10 PRINT "HELLO"
20 GOTO 20
30 GOTO 20
40 GOTO 20
50 GOTO 20
60 GOTO 20

and so on... The only infinite loop in this mess is their Devs inability to think logically or apply common sense because they lack both.

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6 years 3 months ago #3988 by Stenislaus
Stenislaus replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
To be fair, speed hacking is pretty much going to be possible in any game that doesn't rubberband you (and rubberbanding blows). Usually you just let the client tell the server where the player is and where he is going at any given time, and the server verifies that to make sure it makes sense. If it makes no sense often enough, they get flagged as a potential cheater and checked out and banned.

The problem here, of course, is that since you can fly around willy-nilly in combat, lunge, do myriad acrobat tricks, roll, climb on walls, etc... kinda hard to write those server checks. Good luck with that! (Obviously detecting the dude flying across the city ultra-fast is pretty easy, but zipping from dude to dude in combat? Not so much.)

Basically... yeah, this is what you get when you just kinda go for the action MMO thing and figure it'll just work out for the best. It's not really a matter of poor programming so much as inherent to the design. That latter bit is just not obvious to players when they first go "SWEET WHY DOESN'T EVERY MMO PLAY LIKE THIS!" Eventually they will find out why!

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6 years 3 months ago #3989 by kefkah
kefkah replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
Welcome Stenislaus. Was wondering when you were going to post.

Good point about the the inherent design. The question is - can it be fixed and if not - should such designs be abandoned in the future?

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6 years 3 months ago #4012 by kefkah
kefkah replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
SOE is aware of the issue. But the response isn't exactly clear.

forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?&topic_id=17399

RadarX
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A few issues have been identified and corrected internally. Once they have been properly tested they will be rolled out as soon as possible.

RadarX
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Joined: Nov 17, 2010
Messages: 442

We will be very interested to see feedback on the changes. This was a rather complex issue believe it or not and quite a few smaller bugs have been attributed to "animation glitching" which really had nothing to do with it (those have been fixed as welll by the way). Cancelling abilities and combos is necessary in many cases so it will not be removed entirely but the longer multi hit ones will be much less effective.

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6 years 3 months ago #4013 by kefkah
kefkah replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
Apparently threads were deleted because they were not clear... this one managed to be clear.

forums.station.sony.com/dcuopc/posts/list.m?topic_id=16524

So the last thread got locked due to a lack of clarity. So I am going to try and start a new one. Please lets keep this free of QQ and try to be specific - without providing too detailed instructions of how to exploit these glitches.

What is Animation Glitching?

Weapon and ability attacks often have animations - usually unskippable 'pretty' bits of an attack. In most cases these are used to balance the game - a very hard hitting combo may have a long animation.

Some attacks do their damage over the course of the animation. Several however do most of it upfront with the rest of the animation being wasted time. Some of these also 'frontload' a block breaker, a knockdown/knockup or a stun.

Now certain abilities will break or 'Cancel' the animation and start a new one - usually instant cast abilities and a few movement abilities (dash is a massive offender).

This is commonly seen in fighting games but unfortunately it has found it's way into DCUO and is slowly becoming the norm in higher level pvp.

What does it mean in game?

At the 'normal' level of play, not very much. You can make some impressive combos but usually these are still subject to the rock/paper/scissors game mechanics. At worst you may find 2 or 3 powers you can chain together rather powerfully.

At the higher levels of play however, certain skill/power/movement sets have combinations which chain together several entirely frontloaded attacks, with super quick instacast damage abilities which are in turn cancelled by others which are in turn...you see where I am going with this.
By skipping the 'wasted' animations, this can create combos which can deal 1000+ damage in a few seconds with literally no way to counter - since these often incorporate either lunge, a block breaker and/or a knockdown/kip-up/stun.

There are also some combinations that can, by use of a macro-based keyboard, be chained together to produce near instakill combos that hit in a second or less.


How to spot a glitcher?

Usually a clear sign is many different abilities hitting you in the space of a second or two.

Certain combinations are VERY common for glitching. Without going into specifics, Bow/Gadget/Speed is the most common one I see and can produce a kill in less than 2 seconds without the need for macroing - as a certain Villain player on Brave New World will demonstrate if you do arenas in Oceanic primetime. Rifle, 2H, Pistols and Staff also have plenty.

Others I am seeing a lot of are the 'endless roll' which uses a similar technique to cancel/restart rolling animations, making lunge ineffective and moving incredible distances very fast while being 100% invulnerable and some things still being cancelled by block.

In most cases there is little or no visual glitching, although you may see lots of projectiles in the air or someone rolling very, very fast.

There are several guides and 'brag' videos on how to do this on Youtube, as a quick search will demonstrate.

Why is this bad for the game?

Now a lot of people defend this. I had a long conversation with a pvp guild on my server who routinely use this to completely shut down arenas.

But..

1) When done right it is not really beatable unless you also glitch, in which case it turns the game into 'who has the most broken combination of weapon/power/movement' or 'who can hit first'.

2) Not all combinations are created equal. Some combinations are far and away better for this than others. This is not something immediately obvious from descriptions and to be competitive with this mechanic there is a relatively small set of combinations that work well.

3) It basically neccesitates the use of external macro software or hardware to really get the most out of, which unless this is fixed I predict will become the norm at top level play.

4) It is no fun to go up against as it offers little chance to respond or learn the mechanics of the game.

5) This is generating a LOT of bad press. For a game with a lot of excellent pvp potential, the exploited pvp is now a running joke on a few MMO websites.


Some common fallacies and responses from exploiters:

1) "It is skill and an intended part of the game, and that anyone who doesn't use it needs to learn to play."

Due to just how powerful it is, I don't think that it could be intended as it nearly completely overrides the Rock/Paper/Scissors combat system.

2) "Frame skipping is a common tactic in fighting games and should be allowed here"

This is not a fighting game - it has perfectly good and, aside from some massive outliers, a fairly balanced pvp system.It has many more broken consequences here, such as the invulnerable rolling or instakill unblockable combos.

3) "I like glitching. The devs should simply balance around it"

Two big problems with this one. Firstly, not all setups are equal in terms of speed or frontloading. To balance the game around the glitching, they would need to 100% equalize timers and frontloading of all weapons which would ruin any variety ingame.

Secondly, it turns the game from a tactical team based battle to 'who can hit first/has the most broken combo setup' and soon 'who can afford a macro keyboard'.

4) "It can't be fixed. Deal with it"

See below.

Can it be fixed?

A lot of the exploiters claim that this cannot be fixed and will be left untouched.

I don't think so:

1) Simply stop all animations from being cancelled. I am no programmer, but this can't be hard to do. Just stop any keypresses from being registered while an animation is in progress - a lot of other games do this.

2) Make it clear that doing this is exploiting and actionable. Start handing out bans to clear exploiters and warnings to grey areas.

What can you do (as a player)?

1) Stop abusing these glitches and play the game as intended. Is it really fun or challenging to just roll over people who have no chance of fighting back?

2) Report obvious glitch exploiters via the ticket system. Invulnerable rollers especially.

3) Discourage your own Leagues from exploiting.

4) PM Mods and explain in detail your experiences, as was requested in another thread.


As it stands DCUO has an excellent pvp system and it would be a shame to see the entire thing invalidated by a group of exploiters.

forums.station.sony.com/dcuo...?topic_id=14683

A different thread with some extra information. I suggest posting here if you believe (as I do) that this is a bug.

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6 years 3 months ago #4014 by Wildcat84
Wildcat84 replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
I expect this will get fixed around the time they manage to fix:

double sockets
npc's firing through terrain and buildings
and other bugs.

Oh wait, we're talking about the NGE 2.0 engine, those are bugs not fixed in the 1.1 version.

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6 years 3 months ago #4016 by daffid011
daffid011 replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
How sad. I recall two things that make these problems the result of massive stupidity.

1) Ultima online has issues with frontloaded/backloaded damage in connection to animation back in 1998 and they solved it. How this is happening in 2011 is beyond acceptable.

2) How ironic that developers who worked for so long on SWG could possibly make the same mistake in combat design where macros could not only play the game, but play it better than a player could.

Well maybe it isn't that ironic.

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6 years 3 months ago #4477 by TUX426
TUX426 replied the topic: Re: DCUO: Bugs, Cheats and PVP Hacks
Here's their "fix":

RadarX wrote: (Re: "By animation clipping do you also mean sweep shot and crap people think is FC but isn't?")

Animation cancelling is a necessary mechanic to keep combat "fluid" but there are situations where this is obviously just not working correctly. We've also fixed a number of bugs that were being lumped under "animation glitching" which should alleviate many of the concerns we are getting.

The patch notes will give you specifics on what changed. The ability to cancel animations is not going away but the larger combos will be penalized heavily for doing so. Rolls are currently working as intended.

And to clarify, all of this is going in at the same time. We'll absolutely provide an update on the exact date and time once testing/approvals have been completed.

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